noodling on niceness--and, apparently, spices

[redbird]

This is expanded from a comment in someone else's journal (to a friends-locked post, so I'm not naming zir):

Two random thoughts:

•A person who my chosen-kin and I were most recently referring to as "that schmuck" was being condescending and aggressive toward one of said kin a while back, in a public place. This led to, among other things, my preparing to get between him and the person he was being rude to--because I'm not a trained fighter, but you don't mess with my family. I was being generous, caring, and loyal--but not "nice". And the only reason I'm eliding his name here is because my friend was embarrassed by the whole thing.

•"I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right"--Stephen Sondheim, Into the Woods

Which is to say, or at least suggest, that "nice" isn't a virtue; at best, it's a style. In that sense, it's like using etiquette to say "Sir, I do not know you" rather than "get out of my face, you asshole", and thus not making trouble for your host if someone you refuse to deal with is invited to the same event that you are. At worst, it's the "don't make waves" that oppressors are always teaching us. "Nice" is something girls are supposed to be, far more than boys: "sugar and spice and everything nice." Sweet and harmless--though ginger and chili, cinnamon and garlic and cumin, aren't mild or innocuous. Delightful, often, but not "nice".

Comments

[kiya]

Graydon once said something to the effect of "Nice is conduct to which people cannot object in a particular social setting; it does not necessarily intersect with presenting oneself truthfully, and thus cannot be a virtue".

Naughty and Nice

[mishalak.livejournal.com]

Lots of things, like saving lives, sometimes don't intersect with presenting oneself truthfully. Do I have a point? Not really. Just saying because I like nice. I try very hard to be nice to everyone because it is how I wish people would act towards me. There are times and places for not nice, but not many, at least in my view. Is it a virtue? I dunno.

[gconnor.livejournal.com]

This made me think about a certain large mailing list I am on (and help manage). The ground rules don't actually forbid being "rude" because that is a very subjective term. Instead, they proscribe certain activities that people often do when they are being rude, such as name-calling, insults, personal attacks, threats, harassment. That is much easier to verify objectively.

"Nice" may be in the eye of the beholder as well, but I still try to be nice. I usually hold the door (whether it's a man or a woman) and yield to other drivers, get right when someone wants to pass me, etc. In general, I behave like I would like others to behave, even if I don't know them and will never see them again; I'm not doing it for them, really, I'm doing it because momma raised me right!

That said, I can also be "rude" when I feel it is necessary. Usually if I'm being "not nice" it's because I believe in calling things as I see them, but there are other reasons.

[skylarker.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being nice in general circumstances as long as one knows how to assert one's self when it's called for.