Pronouns

[redbird]

I realized a while ago that I wasn't sure of the correct pronouns for some of the people I know here, and I'd like to. So, please comment and tell me what pronouns to use for you. (Note that I'm not screening these comments, in case that's relevant: I know at least one person who uses different pronouns online and in person.)

I'm trying to default to "they" when I don't know people's pronouns, but I may not always realize I don't know.

My pronouns are she/her, and I'm fine with they/them, zie/zir, or Spivak pronouns if you use them for everyone. (ETA, since someone asked: Spivak pronouns are e/em/eir or ey/em/eir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun. (I ran across these on a LambdaMOO clone, which is also where I first used redbird as a username.)

Comments

[alexseanchai]

I'm they/their/them everywhere. Or I'm supposed to be... >_<

(angerface is not at you; I do not recall as I have ever noticed you misgendering me)

[kaberett]

They!

[ritaxis]

What's a Spivak pronoun?

[redbird]

E/em/eir or ey/em/eir: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spivak_pronoun. (I ran across these on a LambdaMOO clone, which is also where I first used redbird as a username.)

[ritaxis]

Thanks.

unscreening is fine

[julian]

Just she/her/etc is fine, really, though I don't mind they/them/Spivak/etc, if one feels called to it.

I'm Ms. Non-Traditional Female, basically. ("I am a woman, therefore what I do is female.")

[sine_nomine]

OMG! Spivak pronouns! I miss those!

(but try getting anyone at Major NonProfit to do anything beyond "he etc" "she etc" or "they etc"... which has left me with "they etc" which sucks. I am way too much the grammarian to ever get comfortable with it! Have trained my friends -- in person -- to "What is Cubby wearing? If it gives off "more traditionally girl vibe then it's she etc" and "If it gives off more traditionally male vibe it's he etc" but, I realized such things are not always possible online - thus Spivak. Which I actually used when I was on a MUSH.)

[redbird]

Spivak it is, then.

[thnidu]

Dear Nameless One,
(Nota bene: The implicit snark in the following is NOT REPEAT NOT aimed at you.)

«"they etc" which sucks. I am way too much the grammarian to ever get comfortable with it!»

I also am a grammarian, and a certified linguist (UCB PhD).

Ic wolde asken so of thee, whether thou beest likewise discomforted by þe novell usage of "ȝe", oft writ as "ye" or e'en "you", in address to ane sole person, as is properly don with "þú", latterly "thou", holdyng "ye/you" in propre resarve for speche to twain or more.

Respectfully submitted,
Dr. Whom: Consulting Linguist, Grammarian, Orthoëpist, and Philological Busybody
(depicted above as "Dr. Whomster")

© Charlene Taylor D'Alessio http://home.earthlink.net/~edisonbear/ Used by permission
Description: Tom Baker's Dr. Who, as an anthropomorphic hamster, in front of the Tardis. ©C.T.D'Alessio http://tinyurl.com/9q2gkko

[snippy]

I don't think you read my journal, or remember me from Usenet, but if it's important to you, I prefer she/her.

[the_rck]

I use she/her for myself, but I'm fine with they/them or any neutral or indefinite alternative being used for me.

[redrose]

She/her, and thanks for asking!

[serene]

I don't care which pronouns people use for me, but the most common are she/her, and that's fine.

[thnidu]

He/him/his. I'm probably not one of the people your question was intended for, but it was just lying there begging to be answered!

[redbird]

I was fairly sure of yours, but not 100%. (In contrast, I was sure of kaberett's pronouns, because I've discussed the question with them.) This post was prompted both by having added a bunch of people I hadn't previously known, and by a longtime acquaintance who is using different pronouns now than when we met.

[thnidu]

Having read through later comments, I'll add that I'm okay with they/them. Since I use them myself in cases of uncertainty, or deliberately not being specific, I can hardly object to someone using them of me!

[umadoshi]

She/her, please. ^_^

[meepettemu]

They/them in the plural :)

[raino]

She/her is fine, but so is they (my mother tongue does not have gendered pronouns and to be honest having separate pronouns like that feels still quite surreal). Also, I don't understand why some people have problems stomaching singular they, when plural and singular you is the same word! It's precisely the same case!

[redbird]

Some of the objection is based on the attitude that gender always matters, and therefore should be signaled early and often. I suspect that another part of the difficulty is having been told, repeatedly, that "they is" was wrong by often well-intentioned teachers and other adults.

Yes, it would be nice to have a specifically singular non-gendered pronoun, just as it would sometimes be useful to still have "thou" as the singular of "you," but that's not how the language is evolving. In both cases, people can clarify, or ask for clarification: "Is my partner also invited, or just me?" or "Let's get together and catch up, just the two of us." (Few of the people who complain about this seem to notice that English could use, not only a more generally accepted/prestigious "y'all" or "youse," but forms of "we" that distinguish "this group of people, including the one(s) I'm talking to" from "a group that includes me but not you."

[raino]

I never paid attention before that "we" covers two separate meanings, but now I can't stop being bothered by it!
To signal gender, it would be so convenient to have different pronouns for "I" / "me" (like in Japanese, though I think all the gendered "I" pronouns are informal). But designed languages haven't done so great so far, so I guess we'll just have to live with the organically evolving ones, with their issues and their charm.

[coth]

Anything other than she/her would confuse most of the people I know who are not connected to me via sf fandom, and also I am finding it hard these days to change long-established habits of speech. Upthread a couple of people said things that work for me. Julian said 'non traditional female', and The Rek said: 'I'm fine with they/them or any neutral or indefinite alternative being used for me."

This is work I need to be doing too.

[supergee]

I'm a big cissy: he, him, his.

[anne]

She/her, but I don't object to they, in the interest of normalizing the usage.

[vass]

They.

[gatheringrivers]

Officially, I use she/her.

Unofficially, I answer any pronouns that don't refer to objects, just to keep it "simple" as I usually shop the mens rack. :)

[miss_s_b]

I'm she/her, generally, but am fine with gender neurtral if that's the way people roll.

[mrissa]

I prefer she/her but consider they/them to be generically polite, so if someone has forgotten or has not yet determined my pronouns and they's me, I am not offended. Although I have recently purchased a pronoun pin for use at conventions to help make it clear that this interaction is totally normal, polite, and chill, including cis binary people like myself.

(I actually have evidence of the not being offended by they thing! A few months ago I held it as a philosophical position, and then it happened and lo, I was not offended. It's really nice when our philosophical beliefs and our actual reactions line up the way we hope they do.)

[wild_irises]

As several folks above have said, she/her, but I'm perfectly comfortable with they/them.

I like this idea and will probably ask in my journal as well. Thank you.

[submarine_bells]

Preferred: zie/zir, but since hardly anyone has heard of those (at least, hardly anyone who wasn't stomping around certain parts of Usenet in days of yore) I have learned to let go of hope that they will ever catch on in the wider world.

Good: they/them

Okay with: anything else. Since I'm actually somewhere between genderfluid and genderless, this stuff really is a bit TOCOTOX (TOo Complicated To eXplain) in RL; I am generally assumed to be female by RL ppl, so I'm used to that, but I'm also fine with a bit of randomness in my pronouns (mix-n-match FTW!).

Uncomfortable: being addressed in terms of gendered group pronouns such as "ma'am" or "ladies" or "fellas" makes me squirm. As does explicitly gendered terms where perfectly acceptable ones are in common use (e.g. wife/husband vs partner, "lady scientist" (just "scientist", plz) etc etc). NB: I have no problem with others using these terms for themselves if they want; it's JUST when they are applied to me that I squirm.

Thanks for asking, BTW. Like I said, for me this stuff is often TOCOTOX in social situations, but I always appreciate being asked in a situation where I have time/sufficient text space to actually explain. :-)

[ranunculus]

Julian's Non-Traditional-Female is a pretty apt description of me as well. I don't object to she/her in general, am also sad that zie/zir never made it to common usage. Not fond of they/them but don't really object to it either.

BTW just read Ann Leckie's "Provenance" which I found very disorienting with gender (or lack of gender)terms. Also confusing was the use of terms like "brother" and "uncle" within this stew of new gender pronouns. Isn't brother a gender linked term? This is NOT to say that I'm against changing gender pronouns, just confused!!

[yalovetz]

He/him/his.

[pinesandmaples]

Since you found my pronoun entry (and asked some good questions which I have ignored in favor of being in the arms of my belov'd but will answer!), I have two levels of personal pronouns!

Entry level: they/them/theirs

Advanced usage: hon/honey/hons

The "entry level" pronouns are for folks who are shifting their mindsets and learning how to use beyond the binary pronouns because I'd rather hear something that is neutral in describing me than hear something that is just plain wrong.

[drwex]

I use he/him and am fine with they/them

[eftychia]

I'm she/her. Because my presentation is ambiguous, I'm not being picky about it. They/them and sie/hir or ze/zir are acceptable -- more so in the "unsure or unspecified" sense than in the "definitely third-gender" sense (are ey/em used in both senses as well?) but she/her is more comfortable. And yeah, things have shifted for me over the last couple decades.

I'm not being picky about it yet (that'll change after I muster the nerve to shave my beard -- and make up my mind about a new name). But that's about accommodating folks who have trouble seeing me as a she while I'm still giving mixed signals, rather than still seeing myself as a ze or a they.

[carbonel]

she/her, but not fussed by they/them

[indywind]

You recently added me (we have friends in common) and I was reading back through your public posts to get to know you and found this, so might as well answer.

I'm fine with any pronouns traditionally used for persons not objects, extra chuffed when someone creative manages to nonchalantly use binary-gendered pronouns in a way the affirms my queerness. Spivak style or the indefinite "they" are good defaults.

(NOT "they" with singular verbs, please -- if you're considering my comfort, "they is" makes me uncomfortable as hell, same as calling a person "it" - though I'm aware there are people who prefer each of those and I do my best to accommodate their preference when I speak of them.)

Like submarine_bells I prefer not to be referred to by gendered group address or categorical terms, with a few idiosyncratic exceptions I don't expect acquaintances to keep track of.