GIP: icons, breasts, nursing, et cetera

[redbird]

This image is not obscene, but I suspect that more people will be disturbed by it than by a photo or painting of a nursing mother, whether or not her aureolae are visible: .

I was thinking about the arguments about default icons and obscenity, and realized that most images of naked breasts are either of breastfeeding or intended as explicitly sexual (and yes, some are both).

There are images of naked or partially naked women that are neither, but focusing specifically on a naked breast makes it difficult to get away from that. Especially at 100×100 pixels, which often means cropping the image to omit the woman's face and most of the rest of her body.

This icon wouldn't violate the Terms of Service for a default, not because breasts aren't obscene; not because it's glorious and defiant; but because it's of a breast cancer survivor, and the ToS are focused on nipples, not tattoos or scars. [It's not my default; for the moment, the purple trilobite keeps that status.]

Comments

[elynne.livejournal.com]

I think it's a beautiful picture.

I can understand LJ's position re: nipples; I do wish that they'd make an across-the-board, "no nipples in default userpics regardless of male or female nipples" announcement, which would should quiet a lot of the protests. I'm also extremely tempted to make a userpic consisting entirely of nipples, because I'm a bit of a smartass.

[supergee.livejournal.com]

And if I commented, I'd be tempted to use an inappropriate icon.

[wilfulcait.livejournal.com]

What a great picture. I love the exultation in her face and pose.

[heyfoureyes.livejournal.com]

I actually think that assuming breasts are 'obscene' or 'sexual' is a product of the 'male gaze' we are ALL taught to assume. Breasts are primarily for feeding children!

And yes, this despite my being a lesbian who is really INTO her partner's breasts. . . .

[redbird]

I'm not convinced that the gaze that sexualizes breasts is inherently male--it seems to devalue our desires, as bisexual and lesbian women.

I also don't see how this connects to what I wrote.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

I don't have a good sense for how images change when you scale them down to icon size. But I will point out that the new LJ TOS exclude depicting even a single woman's nipple in a default icon, and thus would exclude the picture you show. The image draws the eye because of the scar and the tattoo (and the expression), but LJ considers it unsuitable because of the breast on the other side. Unsuitable for default icons, that is. They don't mind anyone using it the way you're using it.

There's nothing remotely objectionable about it in any case. I've seen a lot of posts about how pictures of topless women are intrinsically obscene. While I object to pictures in my social networks, and would prefer to do without them altogether, it's worth noting that you are posting from New York State, where it is legal for a woman to be topless in public for whatever (noncommercial) reason seems good to her. She can nurse a baby, she can take her shirt off in hot weather -- the laws against indecent exposure were made egalitarian back in the early 1990s.

[redbird]

Hence the careful cropping of this image.

And yes, I'm in New York. LJ is in California, where breastfeeding as an activity or image is explicitly legal.

[redbird]

Sorry if the above comment is confusing, I forgot that you don't show icons when you look at LJ. The icon I made from the image shows only the right side of Metzger's torso, the post-mastectomy breast with the tattoo and no nipple.

[juliansinger.livejournal.com]

I love that picture/poster.

Good cropping of it.

Good point.

Good way of mild but forceful protest.

(At least my /first/ sentence didn't use "good"...)

[ailsaek.livejournal.com]

Ook!

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

that's a fabulous picture. whose is it?

(not gonna get into the LJ boob debate beyond what i've already written to six apart on the subject.)

[redbird]

The image is of a writer named Deena Metzger. I don't remember the photographer's name.

I have a poster of this, which isn't on our wall because cattitude said he'd find it too disturbing to look at early in the morning.

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

thanks! yeah, i understand how that might be too disturbing to look at. i find it really inspiring though.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

I've seen it somewhere, possibly in a Sheila Kitzinger book that I own - I will try to find it and check the credits.

[pameladean]

That's a wonderful picture.

And the icon is clever.

P.

[treadpath.livejournal.com]

I love that image.

[silk-noir.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've seen this before. It's gorgeous.

[perigee.livejournal.com]

Are you inclined to share this icon? I'd make it my default in an instant.

[redbird]

Help yourself.

[perigee.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Done. Sorry for the inherent confusion now in this post's comments. :>

[mrissa.livejournal.com]

I do not recall the last time a photo of a topless woman made me go, "Oh wow." Possibly this is because I am a heterosexual female. But: oh, wow.

That is such an amazing picture, such a glorious gorgeous celebratory picture, and I am so glad you posted it. The context is relevant as well, but the picture -- I am knocked over.

[madshutterbug.livejournal.com]

I am several days gone in wandering into this discussion; and just FYI wandering in by way of janetmiles though I believe I've seen your moniker elsewhere.

I'm not sure I disagree with your comment "most images of naked breasts are either of breastfeeding or intended as explicitly sexual"; on the other hand, I'm not sure I can agree either. One of my passions in art (as may be deduced from the particular icon) is photographing the human form. Most of the work I do, I am rather consciously trying not to be sexual in nature, hence the uncertainty about disagreeing. However, I keep that focus (pun intended) in my work because I am quite certain that any image of a nude human will for someone carry sexual overtones.

This image is one of my favorites; it is a celebration of life, not death or disease. It is one of my favorites because of the power in it. It is an inspiration in another of my favorite subjects while photographing the human form, which is intended to bring people to face the reality of breast cancer.

And none of what I said here bears didly-squat on the business of LJ crying Foul about nursing mothers as default user icons. So, I'll wander on out of your corner of LJ-land now.