One more note on Lear

[redbird]

As far as I can tell, there is not a character in all of Shakespeare who can recognize their most-loved relative, nor their most dangerous enemy, by voice, or if that person changes clothes. Was this a convention of the Elizabethan stage, or his own invention?

Comments

[xiphias.livejournal.com]

Actually, it was realistic. During the Tudor and Stewart periods, clothing was the only way to identify one another. This was the reason for sumptuary laws at the time: if someone dressed above their station, everyone would assume that they were of that station, and they could do whatever they wanted -- if you were wearing red clothing, you could order anyone around.

Modern historians often wonder how Walshingham was able to have his agents infiltrate Catholic cells so effectively; the truth is that he just had them change clothes, and nobody could recognize them.

This also explains why Mary, Queen of Scots attempted to escape from her confinement after being captured by the English, in a laundry basket. It would have worked, except that she forgot to actually WEAR the clothes in the laundry basket, and just hid in it.

This was also, of course, the reason Cromwell ordered the theaters closed: they had costumes, and could therefore have infiltrated any Roundhead gathering and nobody would have been able to tell the difference.

[cheshyre]

Also keep in mind, those days they had a lot of lead in the water, wore arsenic-based makeups, imbibed mercury-based potions and most beverages were alcoholic.

Folks back then killed off a lot of braincells ;}

[callunav.livejournal.com]

Because Shakespeare and his cronies were notable morons? :)

[callunav.livejournal.com]

This is very silly.

[cattitude.livejournal.com]

Is that a new icon? Uh oh.

[redbird]

I thought it would be okay; I'm still purple.

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

It's also before widespread use of corrective lenses and good indoor light. So it's not *as* ridiculous as it would be now. I can recognize some of my relatives by voice, but I can't *distinguish* them from each other. My aunt had to live in Ohio for 15 years before I could tell her voice from Grandma's on the phone. With most people living near their relatives, I'd expect less variation. (And projecting so the people in back can hear tends to flatten out some of that variation. It should not be a major plot point that voices sound different if the audience can't hear the difference over background noise.)

[redbird]

It's not that I expect voices as a plot point; it's that I'd expect a blind man who had recently been spending a lot of time with his son to at least wonder "Is that you, Edgar?" if they spent long periods alone together. I'd expect, if someone wanted to disguise himself from the king he had spent years as a close advisor to, that the person in disguise would wear a wig. Or course, that would be hard on the audience, who don't know him anywhere as well as the character does. [There are corrective lenses in Lear, as it happens, but they're reading glasses.]

[cheshyre]

I'd expect, if someone wanted to disguise himself from the king he had spent years as a close advisor to, that the person in disguise would wear a wig. Or course, that would be hard on the audience, who don't know him anywhere as well as the character does. [There are corrective lenses in Lear, as it happens, but they're reading glasses.]

Then again, this production isn't staged realistically, but uses the costumes for audience suggestions... I suspect filmed versions will take much greater pains. [BTW, re:your earlier post, by all accounts the best filmed version of Lear is Kurasawa's Ran, which is supposed to be magnificent, but won't help you appreciate the language.]

*musing* There are two separate Shakespeare plays with major plot points involving somebody sleeping with somebody in disguise, and not realizing who they bedded until the later reveal. Mind you, it is dark, but you'd think there'd be some differences in body type...

I can accept the confusion in "Love's Labour's Lost" at least, because they're relatively new infatuations and doing it on purpose.

[silk-noir.livejournal.com]

You see it in Chaucer, too, as well as much other literature of the medieval/renaissance time periods.

[calimac.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you see that a lot in medieval and Renaissance literature. Doesn't mean they actually did it in real life, any more than we can assume they actually spoke in blank verse.

If we were to believe contemporary drama, than it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE for two people to conclude a heartfelt conversation today without the one who's staying behind calling the name of the one who's leaving, and that person turns around and says, "Yeah?" and the first person says "Nothing." This always, always happens in current drama.

[papersky.livejournal.com]

The thing that gets me is the people who randomly go around in disguise for no reason. There's someone in a ballad who comes back from many long years away and isn't recognised by his girlfriend, "Me being all in disguise" -- but he didn't know he was going to meet her, so he must have been doing it just because he liked it.

Weird convention.

[fuzzygabby.livejournal.com]

In one of Marie de France's stories, there's a pair of lovers who are going to be separated, so he has her wear a special belt so he'll be able to recognize her if they ever meet again. And indeed when they meet up later he doesn't recognize her until he sees the belt. Marie de France was 12th century, so I guess it's a convention that lasted for a while. I hadn't noticed that in Lear before. I'll try to remember to pay attention next time I see it.

[total-cynic.livejournal.com]

Whether it's realistic or not it was definitely a convention of nearly all theatre. It's used as far back as the greek plays and continues even now in certain dramatic productions. It's pretty much become one of those acceptable unrealistic plot turns. After all, it is only a play!

[baratron.livejournal.com]

Interesting set of comments - thanks for asking the question!

This idea persists nowadays in anime and video games - it's common for the heroes not to recognise the bad guys because they are (not very well) disguised.