Sense of humor, self, et cetera

[redbird]

[This grew out of my comments on a post by calanthe_b.]

A lot of my sense of humor tends toward the silly, including puns and free-association. For example, misia just headed a comment on people who had added her to their friend's lists "how'd there get to be 212 of you?" I responded with a silly remark based on US area codes. One of the things I like about this kind of humor is that it doesn't seem to be based on, or involve, cruelty.

I think I have a slightly non-standard sense of humor, one that some people would consider defective (because it's different from theirs). Specifically, I find the "comedy" of embarrassment painful rather than funny; also, sometimes when I realize people are joking/teasing and try to joke back in the same vein, they say "I was joking" in a way that makes it clear that they thought I wasn't. This is irritating, because there's nothing I can do in this context that will be counted as acceptable: if I take them seriously, they say "I was joking" in ways that imply I'm doing something wrong, and if I don't take them seriously, they say "I was joking" in ways that imply I'm doing something wrong. It seems to be more acceptable to also be amused by things that the other person doesn't find funny than to not be amused by things that they choose to joke about in my presence. Part of that may be they don't even notice some of my obscurer silliness because they don't know the references (as I don't know some of theirs), but another part, I suspect, is that they can dismiss my obscure jokes as me being weird, but someone not getting their jokes (anyone's own jokes, including mine) can feel like a failure. After all, "s/he doesn't have a sense of humor" is, as Calanthe pointed out in her post, generally a condemnation, a statement that there's something wrong with the person, and "that's not funny" can be as painful as being told that you're hopelessly ignorant, badly dressed, or otherwise not eligible to be part of the social group in question.

That said, while I don't think it's a defect to not have a sense of humor, I don't think I'd be me without one. The person I'd be instead might be just as good a person, but she'd be different, I think more different than a me without my (intermittent, and I think below-norm) sex drive [something else calanthe_b talked about not having, in that post] would be. If I somehow woke up one day with a different sense of humor—say, a great liking for slapstick and no interest in wordplay—I'd also be a different person, but I might not find the difference as jarring. (This is, of course, an unlikely event and an untestable hypothesis.)

Also, I suspect that if I lost either of those characteristics, I'd wish for them back, because I'm used to those being aspects of myself. That is, I don't think they're essential to being human, but they may be essential to being redbird. I don't miss certain musical talents, or an interest in football or fashion, because they were never there in the first place. I do miss having eyes as good as they were when I was a child, but that's a measurable deficiency and a noticeable change: something that I remember having, using, and enjoying.

Comments

[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Specifically, I find the "comedy" of embarrassment painful rather than funny;

You're not alone -- I used to literally run out of the room when watching sitcoms out of pain for the embarassed (a problem I've since solved by not watching sitcoms) and when I mentioned that in my journal I learned I'm not the only one.

I do think it's, if not a defect, a warning sign not to have a sense of humor at all. In Anne McCaffrey's The Ship Who Sang when asked if she had a sense of humor, she replied: "I am directed to develop a sense of proportion, which contributes the same effect".

People I know without any sense of humor often don't seem to have a sense of proportion either, which makes their judgement worrisome and can lead to the sort of painfully earnest mistake with good intentions that does more damage than most outright malice -- or else ludicrous egotism that doesn't see what's silly about thinking they're the most important thing in the world.

That said, most people seem to have a sense of humor, just not one that necessarily jumps with mine. That's not worrisome, but it does mean if there's no significant overlap at all that we're less likely to be close. Especially if they have the kind that likes jokes whose basic punchline is "aren't they silly" instead of "aren't WE silly" or, as with puns, neither. (There was an SF story whose premise was that humor was an alien-imposed experiment, except for puns, which is why the groan reaction was imposed to compensate. I wish I remembered who wrote it.)

Of course, the closer we are the more likely I am to learn someone else's style of humor, and therefore both get more of their jokes and make ones they'll appreciate.

Mer

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[ailbhe]

Me three.

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[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

Four of us.

[bibliofile.livejournal.com]

Yup.

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[papersky.livejournal.com]

Isaac Asimov. "Jokester".

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[stakebait.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

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[stealthpup.livejournal.com]

You're not alone -- I used to literally run out of the room when watching sitcoms out of pain for the embarassed (a problem I've since solved by not watching sitcoms) and when I mentioned that in my journal I learned I'm not the only one.

My big beef with sitcoms generally come with what I consider abuse. Gratuitous insults, scathing response to well-meant comments, and that sort of thing stick in my gut and clench. (For example, Mama's Family, the off-shoot of the Carol Burnett sketch, would sadden far more than amuse me.) And that abusive schtick seems to be more common nowadays, which is why I, too, avoid sitcoms.

[calanthe-b.livejournal.com]

People I know without any sense of humor often don't seem to have a sense of proportion either, which makes their judgement worrisome

Eh. Speaking as one without a sense of humour, I've always found that a reasonably well-developed awareness of irony and a sense of other people's dignity are really all that's needed to keep you from the sort of mistakes you discuss here...

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[stakebait.livejournal.com]

*nods* I'd include irony in sense of humor, for these purposes. I never thought about dignity, but I can see how that would work too.

Mer

[supergee.livejournal.com]

I have a sense of humor, but I have a deficient irony detector, so I've learned to watch out for what might be ironic and not get caught overreacting. Like you, I don't like comedy of embarrassment.

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

I think you described my own sense of humor fairly well, though it is yours. I've found I really don't care for embarrassment based humor, nor for most of what I call victim humor. Even the Marx Bros. knew that they had to be careful about their targets. One film has an early scene with a guy beating on Harpo - which established the beater as the bad guy that deserved what he got, rather than just some guy who was had the misfortune to be their target.

The really early Bugs Bunny was a nasty rascal who just caused trouble for the sake of trouble. Later, Bugs would be easier to identify with, having been transformed into someone who minds his own business until something happens and he has to do something about it.

A big problem with victim comedy is that, as you note, it tends to be unidirectional: "I can poke fun at you, but how dare you poke fun at me."

[fivemack.livejournal.com]

Embarrassment-based comedy doesn't work for me, either; something like The Office I find actively unpleasant even in trailer-sized chunks.

Combining that with total uninterest in sitcoms probably explains why I'm sitting writing to Livejournal at this hour of the evening, rather than watching TV like a normal person. If there were nowt but documentaries, I suspect I'd watch those pretty solidly (Terry Jones is doing a nice one about medieval life at the moment; and Time Team is a comfort on wet Sunday afternoons).

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

Asimov once wrote in one of his books on humor that the true test of an ethnic joke was if it was still funny if you could still get a laugh after changing the ethnic group to "Ruritanian", and I once caught a friend entertaining his infant with jokes that started "Two babies got off of a bus". I like those sorts of jokes...

On the other hand, really cruel humor makes me feel ill.

bbwoof and I had to walk out of Meet the Parents. We are cursed with entirely too much empathy, I guess.

[marykaykare.livejournal.com]

I change all ethnic jokes to Aggie jokes. Nobody asked to be born black or Polish or whatever, but people choose to be Aggies. Of course this only works if you understand the whole Aggie thing.

MKK

[mintogrubb.livejournal.com]

I second/third/forth your comments on humour, I also like the hat you are wearing.
On the point of losing things, when I go upstairs and forget what I cae for, I think that I am old enough that I can relate to the following...

I got used to the dentures,
To bifocals, I'm resigned,
I can manage with a walking stick,
but, God - I miss my mind!

[treadpath.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes folks will say things like "I was joking" more because they are concerned that their joke was interpreted wrongly or in a bad light rather than as a commentary on the quality of your return joke. I think that phenomenon in general represents not an attack on you and your sense of humour but more a realization of the speaker that their words may not have conveyed the meaning that they had intended. Of course, there are probably mean people out there who would deliberately try to make others feel inadequate and stupid, but I think most people are probably more concerned about whether they themselves are coming off well in conversation than listening and judging what the person they are speaking with is saying.

So if I don't understand your jokes sometimes, I apologise. I mean nothing malicious by it, nor is it a commentary on the quality of your joke or your sense of humour. And if you don't understand my jokes, that's ok, nor does not getting my jokes mean anything negative about you. Sometimes getting someone's joke means you have to follow the same kind of thinking that they are doing to make the same connection. I can't expect everyone to be thinking exactly the way I am all the time! Though, I admit I *love* when someone suddenly "gets" a joke I made after the fact (sometimes waaay after the fact!) and just starts cracking up. It means that somehow, that person was looking at life one way and was able to change their wavelength to match mine for a second. I think that's pretty cool. :)

I do agree with you about cruel humour. I don't like it and much of it falls into what I consider abuse. I don't like movies (Planes, Trains, and Automobiles comes to mind) in which the humour centers around the mishaps of a well-meaning character. Don't like it.

The Gods Laugh Funny

[jerrykaufman.livejournal.com]

Humor's a tough nut to crack, and leads to high dental bills if you use your teeth. Using your head instead will lead to xrays.

My "witticisms" tend to puns, exaggeration, surprise juxtapositions. I come out of (apparently) nowhere, sometimes, and invite head-scratching. I use a straight face often, especially if I'm wildly hyperbolizing or making things up entirely, and that almost always earns the question, "Are you kidding?" Answers me, "Yes."

But I often have the no-get-joke face when someone says something I know is meant as funny but I don't like. So then I hear, "I'm joking." I answer, "I knew that." What I don't say is, "But you weren't funny."

I think I do a good job not being cruel about people's physical quirks and problems, but I do tend to be cruel about their psychological quirks and bad habits. A failing. People laugh, but then they threaten me.