Misc. comments 18: focused on language and communication

[redbird]

In response to livredor, who is uncomfortable with the way I used the term "grownup":

No apologies necessary. Text doesn't always convey tone as well as we'd like.

As for the term, I'd say that--and I can't speak for rysmiel here, of course, though that's where I picked up this usage--there are varied grownup ways of addressing such matters, and I hope my attitude is one of them. For example, simply not wanting to cuddle isn't childish. And assuming that of course you can snuggle people is a thing children do; tagging that with sexual and social reasons not to is an adolescent thing. Adults, I hope, would be able to say, at least to themselves and usually to the other people directly involved, things like "I'd like a hug now" or "I'm not comfortable being touched." It's not in any way grownup for a person to sulk if an acquaintance doesn't want to hug them: that, like other aspects of friendship and affection, should be a gift, and is not something that a person has a right to demand just because they're in the same place as you are, or because you're hugging someone else.

Having expanded a bit, or at least rambled, I'll go back to what you actually wrote and add that I'd be happy to look at better terms for this. Ideally terms that aren't already overloaded and don't have worse implications.

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In response to james_nicoll's statement that, if and when he dies, that is the term he wants used, not "passed away" or any other phrase that implies I went on a trip but neglected to purchase a return ticket":

Me too.

Should it be relevant, I have no objection to specifics being stated: "died of X disease", "was killed in a crash", that sort of thing.

I'm not sure why I care, since I'm reasonably sure that there are no gods and no afterlife, and thus that I'll never know what terms anyone uses. Unless, of course, the rumors of my death prove to have been exaggerated.

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In response to a friends-locked comment thread in which someone asked why people lie/don't keep their word:

I don't know.

Or, rather, I can identify some of the reasons--there is a cluster of reasons for lying that fall under self-protectiveness, fear, and laziness (in a Venn diagram sort of way, not that those three are the same), and a maybe-connected selfishness that doesn't see good reason to keep promises to others--but I don't understand the latter, I just try to identify those people before I've given them too much of my time or heart. I sort of understand the former, especially in power-differential situations where it may be genuinely unsafe to tell the truth. And that sort of lying can be a hard habit to unlearn.

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Axiom lock: In response to someone in statements writing that "There's nothing better than getting a 61 dollar dress for nine dollars.":

I could probably list ten better things that I've experienced in the last fortnight, though not all of them are the business of anyone other than the people involved.

Yes, I know it's hyperbole: but this is Yet Another case of radically incompatible worldviews. Perhaps less compatible than, say, my pagan agnosticism and some of my friends' sincere belief in exactly one god.

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ozarque has been posting about Ozark English pragmatics, and specifically about communication with elders in that dialect and culture. This morning, she wrote about elders' critical statements. After reading that post and a few comments to it, I wrote:

This post helped me clarify something I'd been thinking about with regard to your recent posts.

My objection to the idea that elders are entitled to respect automatically is not to that idea but to the converse: the idea that only elders are entitled to that respect.

That is, I do think elders are entitled to respect, but not because of age. They are entitled to respect because they are people. And that respect, human to human, isn't something that you have to accumulate over time.

I'm not thinking of formalisms here: there's nothing necessarily wrong with customs under which an elder is "Grandma Jones" and a youth is "Mary". The problem comes when Mary's opinions, desires, or experiences are disregarded because of age. Or when Grandma Jones's are.

Yes, it's useful to have peaceful/deflecting ways of responding to hostile criticism from elders or others in a position of power. But I don't think it's useful for people to spend decades being pressured to bottle up their opinions, and then when they get old enough "get their digs in" at anyone younger than themselves.

Similarly, while it may be effective to respond to criticism by pretending the remark hadn't been made (you know your culture and its pragmatics), it doesn't feel respectful from here. You've noted that much of what people--including but not limited to elders--want is to be listened to.