request for clarification re Frenkel

[redbird]

In the discussion of the decision about Jim Frenkel, a lot of people are interpreting this as "he is definitely banned for 2015, after that we'll see, and he can come back in 2019 unless something else happens." At least one person I know is interpreting it as "he is definitely banned until 2018, and then we'll decide whether he can come back in 2019 or later."

Separately from what would constitute good evidence: if nothing changes, and you don't hear from Jim Frenkel in any way, shape, or form between now and April 2016, would he be allowed to attend Wiscon in May 2016?

If he presented no evidence in his favor, and nobody else presented any further evidence against him, would he be welcome at the end of those four years?

[I have put the same post on the Dreamwidth Wiscon community]

ETA: I had meant to post this to the Wiscon community, not my own journal, and have now put it there as well.

Comments

[athenais.livejournal.com]

I just do not understand why a known harrasser who has numerous complaints going back years is being given options like "prove you've changed." Did they do that to Rene Walling? What makes Frenkel such a magical unicorn?

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

Part of the problem (arguably, most of the problem) is that we are not talking about a consistent "they." The people running Readercon 2012 did say Walling's apparent remorse was a reason for a short ban (rather than the lifetime ban called for in their official policy.) The people running Readercon since then have been a lot more careful about safety.

This focus on making people safe from harassment is a new priority--Readercon didn't get to it easily. Quite a few new people volunteered for the safety committee and concom, a lot of rape-culture and sexual-harassment awareness training became part of the planning, and there was an overall shift in the culture. The Walling incident (the bitter objections to how it was handled, more than the harassment itself) had made it clear that some kind of cultural shift was needed.

"Did they do that to Rene Walling?" is not a measure of what a con SHOULD do. It's what a con did before they got their act together and made a good response to rape culture and harassment. And, yes. Wiscon 2014 is looking regrettably like they haven't learned anything from the last 2 years of fandom's efforts to make conventions safer.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

Very true, there is no one "they" and my language was too vague. But I cannot fathom the decision Wiscon has made regarding Frenkel. It cannot be the business of a convention committee to rehabilitate a person. There must be consequences for a repeat harasser or else there is no safety. If there is no safety, that convention has failed its membership.