Annoying phone calls

[redbird]

Yesterday, we got a call from Andy Porter, who was looking for roadnotes's phone number to pass on medical bad news about her cousin Elliot. (cattitude actually answered the phone and spoke to him throughout.) Out of a sudden feeling of caution, I told Cattitude "Get his number, and I'll call Roadnotes and let her know he wants to talk to her." This confirmed what Cattitude had already been thinking about not giving him that information. I gather from what I overheard that Porter did not take this well, and actually got to the point of accusing Cattitude of paranoia for not wanting to give him someone's phone number, but he did reveal his own. The phone call ended quickly and with harsh words.

A moment later the phone rang again. It was a second call from Porter, with a question that is notable for both stupidity and intrusiveness, namely, "Why did redbird have her gall bladder removed?" Cattitude gave him one angry sentence, then hung up the phone again.

I then took the phone and tried to call Roadnotes, dialing from memory. "The number you have reached, 718-xxx-yyzz, is not in service…" Without thinking, I had entered the number from when she was living with volund. So if I had done the automatic thing, or given in to pressure, Porter would have assumed I was trying to blow him off. I then pulled up an address/phone number list, called her, and passed along such news as I'd been given, and the phone number. I also learned that I had been right about her not wanting him to have her phone number.

It's not paranoia to know that not everyone wants their phone number to be available to the whole world. Someone who is a long-time friend of L (whose name I am eliding here for her comfort), a woman who is careful about access to her own contact information, should be aware of that. That the accusation of paranoia came that fast suggests that it's his ready-to-hand way of pressuring people for information, which in turn suggests that he's run into this before and overrun boundaries, or tried to.

Comments

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

That the accusation of paranoia came that fast suggests that it's his ready-to-hand way of pressuring people for information, which in turn suggests that he's run into this before and overrun boundaries, or tried to.

Yes, quite. It also suggests, at least to me, the distinct possibility that the person doing the pressuring may have a bad history with the person whose information they are trying to acquire, and that they're trying to do an end-run using somebody who doesn't know about it.

[redbird]

Quite possible. I wasn't sure of a bad history here--but assuming that I'm unaware of something important in roadnotes's life or past is a good way to be wrong.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I put my foot in it. I know who you are because of our past acquaintance via Linguiça, but I don't know who roadnotes is at all, and I don't think I've ever heard of Andy Porter. I was riffing from your bare-bones description and my knowledge of similar situations involving other friends of mine. Obviously, you know more about the specifics than I do; you're there and I'm not.

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

Ah... I read redbird's comment as a reference to the fact that we've been friends for over thirty years, and refer to each other as sisters; therefore, if Andy thought that he could do an end-run around my boundaries with her, the odds of his success are low. She knows my list of "these people I want nothing to do with," with a few exceptions (I don't think I've filled her in on the ones I only know from The Well); I think I know her list as well.

[redbird]

You didn't put your foot in anything.

Andrew Porter is the one who knew enough of my friendship with roadnotes to have thought of calling me to get her number. (I'd not otherwise spoken to him in, I think, years--but I've had the same phone number since 1987.)

[adrian-turtle.livejournal.com]

(I don't know Roadnotes well enough to speak to the specifics of this interaction. I'm sorry to learn of her cousin's medical difficulties; and hope he will recover soon. I don't know Andy Porter well enough to recognize him if I tripped over him, but Redbird seems to be describing a pattern I've seen with other people. Sometimes me.)

It could easily be a way of interacting with the world in general, and judging it harshly...anybody who flinches is "defensive," anybody who maintains an inconvenient personal boundary is "paranoid." (Some of my reaction here is probably due to boundary issues, which have been scraped raw in the last 36 hours.) Part of the conflict may come from the question of how much excuse one needs to justify not wanting to talk to a person. Some people start with thinking the default state is to be available for any conversation, and a civilized person needs a good reason to be unavailable when doing something else, or a good reason to regard some people as too threatening or hideously unpleasant for any connection. Thinking of the default as privacy, we don't need a reason to say no. We need a good reason to say yes. One has to work pretty hard at being open-minded and considerate to get past that level of disconnect, and why work that hard for somebody when you're not even having a conversation?

A moment later the phone rang again. It was a second call from Porter, with a question that is notable for both stupidity and intrusiveness, namely, "Why did [info]redbird have her gall bladder removed?" Cattitude gave him one angry sentence, then hung up the phone again.

Would it be apt to say, "Moral hazard, of course. Why else would anybody have surgery when they could be playing Scrabble instead?" Or do you think it would be too likely to be taken seriously by anyone mean-spirited enough to ask?

[papersky.livejournal.com]

I was thinking "It was divided into three parts..."

Oh, and totally with you on all of the serious stuff.

[baldanders.livejournal.com]

"Well, I couldn't remember why I'd got it in the first place."

[mjlayman.livejournal.com]

"I didn't like the color."

[bibliofile.livejournal.com]

"They're so, you know, 2007!"

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

I've never had any problem with Andy, but sometimes get the feeling that he's one of those people who either don't quite understand the concept of "boundaries" or don't quite understand/accept the idea that other people's boundaries aren't necessarily what they think these ought to be, but still usually need to be observed.

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

You're male.

I know that sounds cynical, but as a woman who's been pinned by Porter more times than I should have, so that he could tell me about his fetishes and sexuality, he treats men with considerably more respect for their boundaries.

[don-fitch.livejournal.com]

Doesn't sound cynical to me, just factual. We live on opposite coasts, and I don't recall ever seeing him interact with anyone on anything like a sexual level. Mind you, he certainly steps on enough men's toes, and I can rarely figure out whether this is intentional or a matter of innate cluelessness (combined with a truly weird sense of humor and maybe excessive stubbornness).

Meanwhile, I hope all goes well with Elliot -- I still have fond memories of the expression on his face at MidAmeriCon, immediately after he said "Just one cotton-picking minute, here, Harlan", when Ellison had ... ummm... overstepped some boundaries.

[calimac.livejournal.com]

I'd simply say I need her permission to give out her phone number to other people.

That's mere respect, and I've been both giver and recipient in such delicate situations.

Charges of paranoia, of all things, suggest that she's wise to be cautious.

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

Mother of gods. What a flaming asshole.

I'm sorry he hassled you, and furious that he felt entitled to call you back and ask intrusive questions.

I think you're right about him being used to overrunning boundaries.

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

Definitely the correct call. (sorry about the pun)

[the-maenad.livejournal.com]

Given the recent characteristic behavior of Mr Porter on certain mailing lists, I confess my lack of surprise here. (I should also apologise for laughing myself silly at the content of the second phone call, in the circumstances, but the laughter was of course at the foolishness and not at your medical situation, k?)

[redbird]

Oh, certainly. And there's not much space between an answer like the ones adrian_turtle and papersky suggested, and the one cattitude gave, before hanging up again, which was "Because it would have fucking killed her otherwise."

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

He sounds like a twit. And you sound as wise as ever.

[xopher-vh.livejournal.com]

OK, he was being rude and intrusive, and it sounds like that's all he was being until he called back. That second question sounds seriously off-the-rails. I can't figure out what even a really rude, intrusive kind of person could possibly have been thinking there. If he's actually mentally ill, that doesn't mean he wasn't being a jerk, though it may partially explain (though not excuse) it.

I believe in the "No, but I'll give them YOUR number and tell them you were trying to reach them" policy as well. Even if the two people involved were friends last I knew, friendships can blow up with astonishing force.

[roadnotes.livejournal.com]

And patronizing. You would not believe the tone of voice he took with me when he actually reached me -- by calling Soren's phone, which I answered because I was at his desk -- it was ... arrogant, condescending, hectoring; and when I called him to tell him he was rude, he went immediately into blustering interrupt-and-override mode, until I told him to shut up.

I don't know what's going on in his head, and I don't care.