redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
Redbird ([personal profile] redbird) wrote2005-03-19 11:43 am

Attn. Misia

Here's an interesting definition implied by a CNN story on pledging virginity:

"Among virgins, boys who have pledged abstinence were four times more likely to have had anal sex than teens who have remained abstinent but not as part of a pledge, according to the study. Overall, pledgers were six times more likely to have oral sex."

[identity profile] maviscruet.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 04:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I liked this bit....

"Leslee Unruh, president of the National Abstinence Clearinghouse in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, called the study "bogus," disputing that those involved had pledged true "abstinence.""

No you dumb arse, they pledge true abstinence but gave in. But since they were feeling guilty about having sex since they had pledged they looked around for a loophole to help ignore the guilt.

This is one of those things that just leaves me bewildered. Here's hoping that is one social trend that does not make it across the water.

[identity profile] willyumtx.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
So, if I pledge, my chances at oral and anal sex go up? Cool!

Sign me up!!

[identity profile] frandowdsofa.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
This is some very strict definition of virgin, then. You can have come, in somebody else, just not that particular orifice.

Bizarre.

[identity profile] misia.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Bruckner & Bearman are studying abstinence pledges, which are specifically heterocentric and focus on PiV intercourse (through language about "Biblical marriage relationships and the like) as the crux of their definition of "abstinence," so, yeah.

It is however quite true that one of the problems that continually plagues the whole "abstinence" movement is that they never -- apparently for fear of saying too much by doing so -- articulate precisely what the dimensions of "abstinence" are supposed to be and the entirety of what it is supposed to entail... leads to all sorts of interesting casuistry & weirdness, as you point out.

[identity profile] r-ness.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 05:23 pm (UTC)(link)
I do find this amusing. I love the unintended effects: both [livejournal.com profile] willyumtx's comment and [livejournal.com profile] misia's observation of the fear of saying too much getting the movement into weirder trouble.

[identity profile] misia.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually not bizarre at all. Highly traditional. About 2300 years' worth of traditional, at a conservative reckoning.

[identity profile] misia.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Leslee Unruh is... how to put it diplomatically... one of those people who has a hammer. Which means that the entire world is solveable in terms of nails. One way or another.

Trust me when I say that she is not someone you really want to have a conversation with about virginity.

And oh, but they've been *trying* to export the v-pledge shite to the Brits. It hasn't taken. But there was, last summer particularly, a huge drive to get the abstinence-pledge movement rolling in the UK via a series of what are known as "Silver Ring Things." Go Google or check the BBC news website if you're curious; if not, just rest assured that so far it hasn't made much of a dent. :)

Not that it has actually made all that big a dent here, demographically speaking. But that's another story for another time.

[identity profile] purplecthulhu.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
And matches the definition of sex used by at least one president...

[identity profile] holyoutlaw.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 08:31 pm (UTC)(link)
Very funny. Yeah!
ext_6283: Brush the wandering hedgehog by the fire (Default)

[identity profile] oursin.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 10:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, there's something called PAUSE, which is about making teenagers stop and think before having sex, but it's not in the least like the abstinence thing, being about delaying the inevitable (and getting young people to think about things like STDs, contraception and if they really want to have sex or are just giving in to peer pressure) rather than pledging to hold out (except for anal and oral) until wedlock.

[identity profile] wild-patience.livejournal.com 2005-03-19 10:52 pm (UTC)(link)
It reminds me of one of my college friends, a gay guy who came out in a big way but used to protest that he was still a "butt virgin."

[identity profile] daystreet.livejournal.com 2005-03-20 03:49 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, uh...
"Among virgins, boys who have pledged abstinence were four times more likely to have had anal sex than teens who have remained abstinent but not as part of a pledge, according to the study...."

... did anybody think to ask these boys exactly who they were having anal sex with? I suppose we can assume they're talking about girls here, but it seems just possible to me that these abstinence pledge people might be in a great deal more trouble than they can possibly imagine.

[identity profile] r-ness.livejournal.com 2005-03-20 07:33 am (UTC)(link)
After I posted this in my journal, [livejournal.com profile] stolen_tea pointed me at http://www.technicalvirgin.com/.